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JULY 28, 1999
Official disputes FBI account of Davidian  fire

      WACO, Texas - The head of the Texas Department of Public Safety said  Tuesday that evidence held by the Texas Rangers since the 1993 Branch  Davidian siege calls into question the federal government's claim that its  agents used no incendiary devices on the day that a fire consumed the  sect's compound.
      "There's some evidence that is at least problematic or at least questionable  with regard to what happened," said James B. Francis Jr. of Dallas,  chairman of the Texas Department of Public Safety.
      Mr. Francis declined to detail the evidence but said, "With the proper  experts analyzing it, it might shed light as to whether an incendiary device  was fired into the compound that day."
 Myron Marlin, a spokesman with the Justice Department in Washington,  D.C., dismissed the allegation.
....  Mr. Francis said Tuesday that some FBI officials made statements to  Texas Rangers immediately after the fire "that are contradictory" to the  federal government's account of what happened.
...   Mr. Francis told The Dallas Morning News that he only recently became  aware of those statements as he began looking into complaints about the  lack of public access to evidence in the Davidian investigation.
      Mr. Francis said he became concerned enough to contact U.S. District  Judge Walter Smith of Waco, who has presided over all the cases arising  from the deadly standoff. DPS recently filed a motion asking Judge Smith  to take control of the evidence in the case.
     "I took the steps to turn it over to the court so the court could decide what  to do," Mr. Francis said. "I think it's very important that whatever the evidence is and whatever it shows, that all of it come out and let the chips  fall where they may."
.... Mr. Francis said he told Judge Smith that a Justice Department policy  blocking all public access to the Davidian evidence had created what  amounted to an "absurd" shell game, with the DPS stuck in the middle.
      "I said, 'It is in effect a cover-up. It is not intended to be, but in effect it is,"  Mr. Francis said. "It is a complete stonewall."
      Mr. Francis said he doesn't think there was "some grand conspiracy to  hide the evidence. I think it evolved into a situation where that was the  effect of it."
For full article go to:

JULY 27, 1999

        Another indepth article about the facts and issues surrounding the civil suits.  Check it out at:

JULY 20, 1999

      Below is the review you'll find at if you type "A Place Called Waco" in the search engine.
Place Called Waco : A Survivor's Story
by David Thibodeau, Leon Whiteson
This title will be published in September 1999. You may order it now and we will ship it to you when it arrives. Hardcover - 384 pages.
        Review:  When he first met the man who called himself David Koresh, David Thibodeau--who had never been religious in the slightest--was drumming for a rock band that was going nowhere fast. Intrigued, and frustrated by his stalled music career, Thibodeau gradually became a follower and moved to the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas. He remained there until April 19, 1993, when the compound was stormed and burnt to the ground, and 74 people were killed. Thibodeau was one of the nine who survived the attack. None of the survivors has ever told the inside story of life--and death--at Mount Carmel.
        In this book, Thibodeau explores why so many intelligent people came to believe that Koresh was truly divinely inspired. We meet the men, women and children of Mount Carmel, and experience the day-to-day life of the community. Thibodeau is brutally honest--about himself, Koresh and the other members--and provides a revelatory look both at life at Mount Carmel and at one man's spiritual journey. But A Place Called Waco is just as brutally honest when it comes to dissecting the actions of the United States government. Thibodeau marshals an array of evidence, some of it never previously revealed, to prove that our own government caused the Waco tragedy--including the fires.
        The result is a memoir that reads like a thriller--each page taking us closer to the eventual inferno--and a compelling eyewitness account of egregious wrong-doing and cover-up on the part of the U.S. government.
       From the Author: The world of faith and the Bible had been totally foreign to my experience before I met David Koresh. As this book explains, that part of me changed, remarkably so, as I became part of the Mt. Carmel community. But it is somewhat ironic that one of the biggest hurdles I've faced in trying to convince people to listen to me has been the fact that we at Mt. Carmel were often dismissed simply because we were religious. (The fact that we joined together because we believed in David's interpretation of the Bible and scripture brands us, in some minds, as crazy.) And yet, as a recent Time magazine poll showed, about 25 percent of the American population believes the Bible to be literally true. A far higher percentage has some sort of faith, be it Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist or one of the many other religions that color the national mosaic. Of course, I can't hope to explain all the complexities of Koresh's theological ideas. But I've tried to explain, as honestly as I can, why such a diverse group of people--people of all colors and ethnic backgrounds, people with degrees from Harvard Law School and people who never finished high school, fathers, mothers, children, grandparents--came to Waco and listened to David Koresh. I've tried to show why we were drawn to Koresh and his message, and what our lives were like once we made a commitment to him. And of course I've tried to show what happened when the United States government decided that we were too dangerous to be allowed to live.
        Writing A Place Called Waco was not easy. For many years after the events of 1993, part of me wanted to hide, to live my post-Mt. Carmel life in obscurity. I lost my wife and stepdaughter in the Waco inferno, as well as more than seventy friends. It is not easy to revisit a nightmare. But something else told me that there was a reason that I had survived the fires, and that was to be a witness. The true story had not been told, and I realized that it was my duty to try and tell it. I wrote this book both to move on in my life and to set the record straight. It's for anyone who wonders what life was like at Mt. Carmel. It's for anyone who thinks that something was very wrong with the way the government handled the attack on Mt. Carmel. It's for anyone who thinks they know the full story based on what they've seen on TV and read in the papers. And it's for anyone who really wants to know what David Koresh was like.
        About the Author: David Thibodeau was born and raised in Maine. He is one of only four Branch Davidians who survived the massacre who was not sentenced to jail. Leon Whiteson is a writer based in Los Angeles.

JULY 13, 1999

        The Texas Department of Public Safety has asked a federal judge to take back the tons of evidence that the state agency has been stuck with since 1993 when the Texas Rangers were asked to investigate the Branch Davidian tragedy.
        The motion filed in Waco late Friday by Texas Attorney General John Cornyn says the agency wants to surrender custody to extricate itself from an ongoing impasse with the U.S. Department of Justice over public access to the evidence.
        The state agency has maintained the massive collection of charred guns, spent bullet casings and other evidence in an Austin-area warehouse. The Rangers were brought in as lead investigators and custodians of all the evidence collected for the criminal cases arising from the Branch Davidian siege.
. . . ."While this evidence has been in the custody of DPS, members of the public have requested access through the [state] Public Information Act," the motion states. "The Department of Justice has requested that it receive all requests from the public for access to the evidence. It has responded to such requests by asserting its lack of possession of the evidence, and ultimately, referring the same requests back to DPS."
...... The agency has received requests for access from documentary filmmakers, conspiracy theorists, private  individuals and investigators assisting lawyers who have sued the federal government on behalf of surviving sect members and families of those who died.
For story go to:
        (Note: Attorney David Hardy who is helping with the civil suits believes this came about from this Freedom of Information Act requests.  "I made a state public records request for it, the Rangers said it was in US Marshal's control, I made a FOIA to the Marshals and they said no, it was solely Rangers' evidence, I sent that back to the Rangers and they said it was in the US Attorney's control, I sent a FOIA to the US Attorney's office and they said no, it wasn't, and I ended with a letter to the Rangers saying "cough up." Well...."

JULY 14, 1999

    Below are a few exceprts from this article.  Note that it was the Ramsey Clark clients (including David Koresh's family) who were dropped from the law suit that was dismissed because the attorneys he had in charge allegedly failed to file papers in time.  Clark was too busy opposing Clinton's war on Yugoslavia to properly oversee the windup of the case.  Again, the Davidians and their families are victim's of Bill Clinton's wickedness.  (See other artcles on this topic below.)  The full article is at:

Trial Set in Suit Over Davidians' Fiery End
Relatives Allege FBI Negligence In Waco Deaths
By Richard Leiby, Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, July 14, 1999; Page A03

        More than six years after the fiery deaths of 76 Branch Davidians at Waco, Texas, a federal judge has cleared the way for a civil trial to determine whether the FBI was negligent in its tank and tear gas assault on the apocalyptic sect headed by self-proclaimed messiah David Koresh.
        The long-awaited order from U.S. District Judge Walter S.  Smith Jr. of Waco reopens several questions that the government insisted were settled in various congressional hearings and voluminous official  reports. While the judge threw out many of the claims in the suit, lawyers representing families of the dead Davidians persuaded him not to dismiss allegations that the FBI used "grossly excessive" force and showed a "reckless disregard for life" on April 19, 1993, when a 51-day standoff ended. .
        Smith said that he would decide most of the issues at trial himself but that the allegations involving one FBI sniper's role must be decided by a jury. He set a trial date of Oct. 18...
        The lawyers had fought hard to get Smith removed from the case for alleged bias. In a 1994 criminal trial, he sentenced several Davidians to long prison terms despite a jury's finding that the sect members essentially acted in self-defense against a massive show of federal force. "I just don't hold out a lot of hope if this case is in Smith's hands that we'll get fair treatment," said Clive Doyle, a Koresh follower who escaped from the fire and was cleared of criminal charges. "He's been prejudiced since day one."...
        [Smith] also threw out as "outrageous" a claim that government agents planted a bomb on top of a concrete bunker where many of the 55 Davidian women and children were found dead.
        The bomb allegations were raised primarily by Ramsey Clark, a former U.S. attorney general who represented several family members...
        [FBI sniper Lon] Horiuchi stated that neither he nor anyone under his command fired their weapons, according to FBI documents. But Special Agent Charles M. Riley, another sniper on duty that day, reported he "heard shots fired" from Horiuchi's post. After this account surfaced during litigation in 1996, Riley retracted it as "inaccurate.".. .

JULY 9, 1999

    Attorny David Hardy has been working with John Sando, attorney of record, on Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) suits to obtain information from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).  He just reported good news.  The federal judge who has been overseeing the case awarded them $32,329 in attorneys fees and in costs, forcing both agencies to pay up. The attorney's research indicated that there is only one award higher in the 25 year history of the FOIA statute. ATF and FBI will appeal, of course, but Hardy doubts they will win.  It will just take the attorneys are few more years to collect the fees--no doubt, with interest.
    A few of the judge's comments were:
   "As to both Defendants, the lawsuit was reasonably necessary and caused the production of the requested material. ... Plaintiff faced formidable opposition by the ATF at every juncture. ...
    "The court's decision to award attorney fees tips in favor of Plaintiff because of the unreasonableness of Defendants' excuses for withholding information. The FBI's conduct was far superior to that of ATF, but in this court's opinion FBI stonewalled release of the most controversial of plaintiff's requests: the FLIR tapes. [Judge discussed how FBI claimed it needed to review the tapes.  However, through Mike McNulty's testimony the attorneys showed they'd already been played in the media ("Waco: The Rules of Engagement" film).  Then FBI claimed the media showing must be an unauthorized leak.  However, attorneys filed the Washington Post article showing the reporter had been shown the tapes in the FBI HQ with narration by a representative of the attorney general.]
        "Whereas the attorney fee question is a close call for FBI, the court does not hestitate to award attorneys fees against the ATF.  As the various Orders issued in this case reveal, even this Court has been frustrated by ATF's approach."
        Check out Hardy's web page:   The full tour begins at the very bottom of the page.

JULY 2, 1999

July 02, 1999 18:22:45 ET
From: Drudge Report
        A former U.S. law enforcement official on Friday was chosen as the lead candidate to head Interpol, the global law enforcement organization.
        Ron Noble, former Treasury undersecretary for enforcement, was named during an executive session at Interpol headquarters in Lyon, France.
        Noble, 42, best known as the chief investigator of the failed Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms raid on the Branch Davidian compound outside Waco, Texas, is the only person the United States has ever nominated to head Interpol in the 75-year history of the organization.
        Attorney General Janet Reno personally picked Noble for the position.
        The move marks a shift in U.S. policy, and comes as American's celebrate Independence Day.
        Until recently, American federal law enforcement agencies have not played an active role in Interpol.
        Founded in 1923, the International Criminal Police Organization [Interpol], using the resources of law enforcement agencies in 177 member countries, acts as a global clearinghouse for information on crime threats.
        The organization cannot make arrests, but it does issue "red notices." Those notices are honored by 135 countries that arrest suspects solely on the basis of a "red notice" with no further information. The USA, however, does not currently honor Interpol's red notices.
        "Interpol is a great law enforcement organization, but at the turn of the century, with technology taking off by leaps and bounds, it is at a crossroads," Noble told USA TODAY in a recent interview.
        "You can move from country to country in hours, and from a communications and business perspective, you can move at the speed of light with the advent of the Internet. Interpol is the one organization that can help in getting the right people together and coordinating and fighting crime in those areas."
    Notes on Ron Noble from Carol Moore:
        During last winters House Impeachment hearings Clinton chose Ronald K. Noble (who oversaw the Treasury Department’s 1993 whitewash report on Waco) and Edward S.G. Dennis, Jr. (who oversaw the Justice Department’s 1993 whitewash report on Waco) to participate in the Wednesday, December 9th morning panel on  “Prosecutorial Standards for Obstruction of Justice and Perjury.”  So this is a form of payback
        In late April, 1993 Treasury Secretary Lloyd Bentsen selected Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Law Enforcement Ronald K. Noble to head the Waco investigation.  Noble had approved the decision to go ahead with the raid.  Since he had not been confirmed at that point, Noble had no formal authority.  Noble had little interest in issuing a report that either would challenge significantly BATF's investigation or operations modus operandi or would admit these led to crimes against the Davidians.
        During the 1995 House Waco hearings, Republicans were angry to learn BATF ignored David Koresh's July, 1992 invitation to BATF, through gun dealer Henry McMahon, to inspect his guns.  They solicited from a number of expert and law enforcement witnesses opinions that such an invitation always should be accepted, if only as a means of gathering information for a search warrant.  One representative castigated Treasury official Ron Noble for not mentioning the invitation in the official Treasury Department report.
        During the hearing, Noble asserted the Treasury Department had investigated the issue of firing from helicopters thoroughly--even though the allegation was never mentioned in the department's official report.  (He ignored more than a dozen eyewitness reports, photographic, video and other evidence of such firing.)
        A document discovered by House staffers revealed that on the morning of February 28 an unnamed BATF agent in Waco informed BATF's Washington office that the BATF raid had been speeded up because of David Koresh's "comments" that he knew about the upcoming raid to the undercover agent.  When asked about it, Ron Noble tried to explain this away as an after-the-fact record, of no consequence.
        During the hearing, Friend-of-Bill Webster Hubbell denied repeatedly that he and Clinton had discussed the Waco situation informally, and improperly.  However, an Associated Press article claimed Hubbell had revealed he was giving Clinton updates on Waco.  And House staffers discovered a memorandum in which then-Treasury official Ron Noble asserted Hubbell would take the matter up with Clinton if the Treasury Department's review did not downplay BATF errors.  Clearly, Noble condones covering up government crimes against citizens.
(For more details of /references for this coverup see Chapter Six and Chapter Thirteen of of my book The Davidian Massacre.)

JULY 2, 1999

Judges Dismisses Most Lawsuits by Davidians Survivors; 3 Key Issues Remain
By Tommy Witherspoon Waco Tribune-Herald staff writer

           A federal judge in Waco threw out the bulk of claims and defendants in  lawsuits filed against the U.S. government by Branch Davidian survivors,  but his ruling Thursday keeps alive three critical issues that will give the  families of cult members their day in court.
          In an 87-page ruling, U.S. District Judge Walter S. Smith Jr. granted a  majority of the government's motions to dismiss elements of the lawsuits,  but said the issue of whether the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms  used excessive force during the Feb. 28, 1993, raid at David Koresh's  compound must be decided at trial.
         Also to be determined at trial is the question of whether the FBI used  excessive force when officers fired into the compound during the insertion  of tear gas and during the April 19, 1993, fire in which Koresh and 75 of his  followers were killed.
         The judge also ruled that the question of whether the FBI "was negligent in  relation to the fire on April 19 and its extinguishment'' will be decided at  trial. However, under federal law, only the question of whether the FBI used  excessive force can be decided by a jury. The other issues will be  determined by the judge.
         Smith's ruling involved 10 lawsuits filed by Davidian survivors and their  relatives which were consolidated into one suit and transferred to Waco's  federal court. The suits, some of which were filed in Houston and  elsewhere, involved 209 plaintiffs and 42 defendants, including U.S.  Attorney General Janet Reno, former Texas Gov. Ann Richards, former FBI  Director William S. Sessions, former ATF Director Stephen H. Higgins,  Assistant U.S. Attorney Bill Johnston of Waco and a host of FBI, ATF and  Texas National Guard officials.
         The judge's ruling dismisses all of the individual defendants except for FBI  assistant special agent in charge Lon T. Horiuchi, who was in a sniper  position at the time of the fire.
         The order also winnows the number of plaintiffs to 84, with the judge ruling  that those dismissed had no valid cause of action for a variety of legal  reasons....
                 Mike Caddell, the Houston attorney who represents about three-fourths of  the plaintiffs, said he was thrilled with the ruling, although he, too, had not  read it.
                  "Frankly, that is more than I had hoped for,'' he said. "I don't know if I ever  had high hopes for it because there has been so much stacked against us  at this point. That is an outstanding victory for us. I could not be happier.''
Whole article at:
Posted for info purposes only

JUNE 30, 1999

        On April 19, 1999 150 people gathered at Mount Carmel to observe the sixth anniversary of the fire that killed 76 Davidians and mourn as well the six who died February 28, 1993.  Clive Doyle and his mother have moved into a trailer on the property and, with the help of supporters, are maintaining the visitor center there.
         However, Davidian survivors still must deal with squatters on the property.  Judge Alan Mayfield of Waco's 74th State District Court has delayed at least six times the trial over the ownership of the 77 acre property.  (The former common law wife of a former leader and a former member both claim ownership.)  Davidian followers of David Koresh, led by Clive Doyle, have the strongest title to the land, have built a memorial and a museum on the property and continue to pay taxes on it.   Davidians and supporters found hope in a paragraph from a June 27, 1999 Dallas Morning News article by Tony Plohetski about the flow of visitors that still visit Mount Carmel weekly.  The reporter wrote: “ Mr. Koresh's followers have custody of the property, although a man who says he is the divinely appointed leader of the religious group has filed suit for its ownership. A state district court judge has said he will dismiss the suit.”
            According to a report from Clive Doyle, that was not the case: “In regards to our getting the Mt. Carmel property back.  On Friday, the 11th,  of this month, we spent the best part of the day in Court, dealing with an  individual by the name of Douglas Mitchell, who had brought counter claims of ownership and who had thus muddied the waters as to who should receive recognition as to being the rightful title-holders.  What started out as a docket call turned into a pre-trial which resulted in the judge throwing out Mr. Mitchell's motions.  The judge basically said that what Mr. Mitchell was asking the Court to decide, such as who should be the leader of the Church, who were true members as opposed to false, and how church by-laws and doctrines should be interpreted and administered, we all areas that the Constitution of the U.S.A. restricts the Court from meddling in.
           Having dispensed with this counter-claim we had another docket call this past Friday in regards to our original request.  Monday, the 28th was scheduled for the case to go to trial, at which time our motions, and those of any other contenders were supposed to be heard.  We were number 5 on this docket list.  The participants in number one position were prepared to go to trial.  Numbers 2, 3 and 4 were eliminated for one reason or another which moved us up to second place.  At that time we were told by the judge that even though all parties in our case were ready to go to trial, he did not have a Court room for us and so we are back on hold.  We are waiting, once again for a new Court date."

JUNE 22, 1999

       On June 22, 1999 the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld Judge Walter J. Smith’s ruling that five Davidian prisoners should receive 25 year sentences for carrying illegal weapons during the murder of federal agents–this despite the fact the jury found them innocent of murder, found them guilty of carrying weapons in error, and did not find they carried illegal weapons.  (See
       Davidian attorneys had argued that the March 24, 1999 Supreme Court decision in Jones v. United States (97-6203 ) supported their contention that Smith could not unilaterally find Davidians had illegal weapons.  In that case the Supreme Court found that a judge could not impose additional sentences for crimes unless a jury had found the defendant guilty of the crimes.  However, the Fifth Circuit argued that in Jones the legislative history contained conflicting indications of whether Congress intended the statute at issue “to lay out three distinct offenses or a single crime with three maximum penalties. . . In contrast, the legislative history of § 924(c)(1) discloses that Congress consistently referred to the machine gun clause as a penalty and never indicated that it intended to create a new, separate offense for machine guns.”
       Davidian attorneys are now appealing to the full Fifth Circuit Court to hear their appeal (only three judges heard the first).  If that appeal fails, they remain hopeful that the Supreme Court will ignore this questionable reasoning and look at the Constitutional issue of whether a judge can unilaterally find a defendant guilty of a crime.  In a similar case in early June, 1999, Richardson v. United States, the Supreme Court ruled that jurors must find defendants in a drug conspiracy case guilty of specific violations.  Otherwise, wrote Justice Breyer, jurors may “simply conclude[d] from testimony, say, of bad reputation, that where there is smoke there must be fire.”  Davidian supporters therefore can have some confidence that the Supreme Court will find at least find against the additional 25 year sentences for four defendants.
       Attorneys also will argue that the gun convictions should be thrown out of Court because the jury was improperly instructed and Judge Smith himself originally threw out the conviction.  Attorneys for Graeme Craddock and Paul Fatta will argue there was insufficient evidence against their clients. For more information on the trial and appeals, click here.

JUNE 20, 1999

MOUNT CARMEL SURVIVORS WEB PAGE is now at: The page includes: Table of Contents and Ten Commandments; Branch Davidian Trial Transcripts; Mt. Carmel Visitor Center and Events page;  Addresses and contact information; Mt. Carmel Chatrooms and Instructions pages.

by Sandra Connizzo.  Is at Mark Swett’s The Research Center home page at:   Michael Schroeder was ambushed and killed by ATF agents February 28, 1993 as he tried to return to his wife and children at Mount Carmel. There is evidence agents first wounded him and then later approached the wounded man and shot him twice in the head at close range. (For evidence see Chapter 5 of my book THE DAVIDIAN MASSACRE.)

Hardy is an attorney working on obtaining evidence through the Freedom of Iformation Act.  He is always coming up with new documents, photographs and videos which he puts on his web page.  For the latest check out:   The full tour begins at the very bottom of the page.

JUNE 15, 1999

         Blockbuster, the nation's largest video rental company, will add “Waco: The Rules of Engagement”( to its shelves in either August or September.  This success follows HBO cable television airing the film on April 19, 1999, the sixth anniversary of the fire that destroyed Mount Carmel. Nominated for an Academy Award® in the Documentary Features category last year, “Waco: The Rules of Engagement” combines archival news footage, video and audio tapes, testimony from the televised House of Representatives investigation, and interviews with survivors. In addition to an Oscar nomination, “Waco: The Rules of Engagement”  was honored with the prestigious International Documentary Association's Distinguished Documentary Achievement Award in 1997.

JUNE 10, 1999

     The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals heard arguments over whether to reinstate an Idaho state prosecution of FBI agent Lon Horiuchi for involuntary manslaughter in the death of Vicki Weaver in 1992. (The “Ruby Ridge” incident.) A federal judge ruled in 1997 that under a constitutional clause, Horiuchi is immune from state prosecution because he was acting in the line of duty.
     However, Ramsey Clark, a former U.S. attorney general, and a  peace and civil rights activist, argued that Horiuchi violated special ``rules of engagement'' for the standoff and was recklessly negligent when he fired a bullet through a cabin door, killing Vicki Weaver as she held her infant daughter. ``You have incredible use of deadly force -- I think you can call it summary execution,'' Clark, arguing for the state of Idaho, told the three-judge panel. You can't just say anything goes,'' he said.
       Judge Alex Kozinski repeatedly questioned the legitimacy of the shooting. ``I'm not aware of any case where it's OK to shoot somebody to keep them from taking cover.
        In 1994, the U.S. Justice Department decided against prosecuting Horiuchi or any of his FBI superiors and reaffirmed the decision three years later, prompting an Idaho prosecutor to file charges. In 1995, the Justice Department agreed to pay Weaver $100,000 and each of his three daughters $1 million to settle claims stemming from the standoff.
        Outside the 9th Circuit hearing, Boundary County Prosecuting Attorney Denise Woodbury said she charged the agent because ``I'm a citizen and I want our citizens to be safe.``I believe our citizens have a right to be safe from our own government.''
        This report excerpted from “Appeals court making a return to Ruby Ridge,” by Robert Jablon,
Associated Press, June 10, 1999


       About the time the US/NATO bombing of Kosovo and Serbia began, George Stephanopoulos's book “All Too Human” was released.   The quote that quickly found its way all over the internet came from page 214.  He recounts a meeting between Clinton and Anthony Lake on the killing of 18 US Marines in Mogadishu (the Marines had killed more than 1,000 Somali civilians during the "fire fight"):
       "We're not inflicting pain on these fuckers," Clinton said, softly at first.  "When people kill us, they should be killed in greater numbers." Then, with his face reddening, his voice rising, and his fist pounding his thigh, he leaned into Tony as if it were his fault: "I believe in killing people who try to hurt you, and I can't believe we're being pushed around by these two-bit pricks."
        Several columnists have compared Clinton’s actions in Waco (where Davidians defending Mount Carmel killed four federal agents) and Kosovo.  In her April 15, 1999 column “The Deadly Price Of Good Intentions,” Arianna Huffington wrote: “Nor is Kosovo the first time that the administration's policies of good intentions have produced disastrous results. Who can forget Waco? There is no doubt that the president and his attorney general wanted the best for the men, women and children inside the Branch Davidian compound. They intended to save them from David Koresh. Yet, six years ago next Monday, their actions led to the people they wished to protect being burned to death."
         “The parallels between Waco and Kosovo are telling. In Waco, tanks and guns employed to save women and children in fact precipitated disaster. In both cases Clinton demonized one man -- the president called Koresh ``dangerous, irrational and probably insane.'' And, similarly, the administration ignored dire warnings. ``I directly considered the possibility of a mass suicide,'' Janet Reno testified before the House Judiciary Committee. But she dismissed the reports, in the same way that the administration chose to ignore reports that Milosevic would use the NATO bombing to drastically step up his campaign of ethnic cleansing.”  (Note: there is greater evidence that tank action caused the fire fire that killed 76 Davidians on April 19, 1993 than that it was a “mass suicide.”)
..          The column which got the most circulation on the Internet is described below.

JUNE 1, 1999

        Well-know writers Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair’s May 21, 1999 article “Was Clark at Waco?”  on their web page made quite a stir on the Internet.  However, after getting more details from Mike McNulty, chief researcher for and co-producer of the Academy Award-nominated film, “Waco: The Rules of Engagement,” the authors wrote an updated version which received a great deal less circulation.

Waco Update: The Delta Force Was There
by Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair
June 1, 1999
          Amid Nato military supremo Wesley Clark's onslaught on the civilians of Serbia the question arose: did Clark hone his civilian-killing skills at Waco, where the FBI oversaw the largest single spasm of slaughter of civilians by law enforcement in US history, when nearly a hundred Branch Davidians died amid an assault by tanks, flame-throwers and snipers.
          The tanks were from Fort Hood, where Wesley Clark was, in early 1993, commander of the Cavalry Division of the US Army's III Corps. In our last issue we cited a congressional report commissioned in the aftermath of Waco which described how Texas governor Anne Richards had consulted with Clark's number two at Fort Hood. Then, on April 14, there was a summit at the Justice Department in Washington, where Attorney General Janet Reno, top Justice Department and FBI officials and two unnamed senior Army officers reviewed the final assault plan scheduled for April 19.
          The two Army officers at the Justice Department that day were Colonel Gerald Boykin, and his superior, Gen. Peter J. Schoomaker, the head of Special Forces at Fort Bragg. Though Clark (who had served with Schoomaker) was not directly involved in the onslaught on the Branch Davidians, the role of the US Army in that affair throws into harsh relief the way prohibitions against the use of the US military for civilian law enforcement can be swiftly by-passed.
          Boykin and Schoomacher were present because the Army's Fort Bragg-based Combat Applications Group-popularly known as the Delta Force-had been enlisted as part of the assault team on the Branch Davidian Compound. It appears that President Clinton had signed a waiver of the Posse Comitatus Act, with the precedent being Ronald Reagan's revocation of the Act in 1987, allowing the Delta Force to be involved in suppressing the Atlanta prison riot.
          The role of the Delta Force, the identity of the two Army officers, the revocation of Posse Comitatus all form part of the disclosures of a forthcoming documentary film, Waco: A New Revelation, put together by the same team that produced an earlier, excellent film, Waco: Rules of Engagement. Following our questions about Wesley Clark's possible involvement at Waco, producer/researcher Mike McNulty called us with some details of his new documentary-directed by Jason van Bleet and due to be
released in July.
          After energetic use of Freedom of Information Act enquiries, plus research in three repositories in Texas holding evidence from the Waco inferno, plus other extensive investigations, McNulty and his team have put together an explosive file:
? 28 video tapes from the repositories show that in the final onslaught on the Waco compound were members of the US military in special assault gear and with name tags obscured. As noted above, Clinton's revocation of the Posse Comitatus Act made this presence legal. McNulty isolates Vince Foster as the White House point man for the Waco operation.
          McNulty cites Foster's widow as saying that the depression that prompted the White House lawyer's death was fueled by horror at the carnage at Waco for which the White House had given the ultimate green light. Foster was writing a Waco report when he died. McNulty says that some documents about Foster and Waco were among those removed from his office after his death, later to surface in a White house store room sheltering archives of the First Lady.
          The film, McNulty says, discloses how the federal assault team placed explosives on top of a compound bunker whither the feds believed the Branch Davidian leaders might flee. Material evidence collected by McNulty shows that the FBI/Delta assault force bombarded the compound with pyrophoric - i.e. fire-causing - projectiles.

APRIL 18, 1999


        Washington, D.C.--On Sunday, April 18th from noon to 3 p.m the Committee for Waco Justice will erect 82 crosses in the northwest quadrant of the Ellipse, south of the White House for Davidians killed by the FBI on April 19, 1993.  The Committee also will display a banner reading “FBI Killed a Village and Its Children” and carry signs linking Clinton’s aggression against Davidians and in the Balkans today.
         Carol Moore, coordinator of the Committee and author of the mass market paperback The Davidian Massacre, asserts that Clinton is “wagging the dog” with the U.S.-led NATO bombings on Kosovo and Serbia.  She states, “Clinton’s bombings of Iraq, Sudan and Afghanistan coincided with initial allegations of adultery, his admission of adultery, the House of Representatives’ vote on impeachment and the televising of Juanita Broaddrick’s credible rape allegation.  Although Clinton escaped impeachment, he continues to face jeopardy: leaked FBI files that he raped and assaulted other women; reporters hounding these women to speak out; federal investigators interrogating former Clinton business partners and Chinese government-linked campaign contributors; a forthcoming Congressional report on Clinton’s laxity in stopping Chinese government spying at U.S. weapons facilities; reports that Clinton allowed China to legally import nuclear weapons manufacture equipment.”
         Similarly in 1993, after a brutal February 28 BATF attack that killed six Davidians and a 51-day standoff due to FBI mismanagement of negotiations, Clinton was eager to end an embarrassing situation.  Therefore he approved a dangerous FBI plan to assault a multiracial church filled with 23 children, 36 women and 34 men with gas and military tanks.  He knew that the building was a firetrap filled with flammable fuels and lighted lanterns.  During the April 19, 1993 attack a tank knocked over a lantern, causing a fire; 76 people trapped by tank debris or frightened of being shot by FBI snipers burned to death.  The next day President Clinton claimed “some religious fanatics murdered themselves.”
         Former White House FBI agent Gary Aldrich revealed in an October, 1998 speech: “Bill Clinton was embarrassed that he was not able to figure out what to do about David Koresh and Waco.  It was becoming his hostage situation.  He was being compared to Jimmy Carter.  And so they wanted the Department of Justice to get rid of the mess...But the President told me to my face that he felt so bad about this ‘mass suicide.’”
         The Academy Award nominated film “Waco: The Rules of Engagement,” details evidence that BATF shot from helicopters, that FBI tanks started the fire and that federal agents shot at Branch Davidians during the fire.  (Http://  Clinton’s bombing of Serbia and Kosovo has prompted Serb attacks on Kosovoan Albanians and the exodus of a million refugees.  NATO bombings have killed hundreds of Albanians and Serbs and may yet lead to accidental or intentional nuclear war between Russia and the U.S.
         The Committee for Waco Justice, which has held over 20 protests in D.C. in the last six years, informs America that Waco was just a warning of the kind of Holocaust that may face the world because of Clinton’s selfishness and recklessness.  Call the numbers above for more information.


FEBRUARY 26,  1999

Inside view of Night Stalkers
Some vets have reservations about special unit
By David M. Bresnahan
© 1999 2-26-99
Excerpts only.  Full article at:

       The use of live fire in civilian areas during secret military training exercises is not that uncommon, according to a former Night Stalker. Such exercises are conducted in cities that give permission, and in others that have
not been consulted in advance.
        Sgt. Jeff Norgrove was a crew chief on board a Night Stalker helicopter. He served in Somalia supporting the Rangers, in Honduras with the Delta Force, and in other areas. He is well  acquainted with the training and activities of  the elite 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment Airborne -- the Night Stalkers.
       Norgrove added his confirmation that black  helicopters do exist and have been flying  around U.S. cities on training missions for  years. WorldNetDaily has previously reported  that Army public affairs officers have also
confirmed such reports.
<several paragraphs deleted>
       The Night Stalker website has many  references to killing and death. It also uses  mythology and occult symbols. There is a  description of the creation of a Night Stalker,  written as if it were from the Bible in a mocking  fashion. Their creed is also taken from the book of Revelation and speaks of killing and death.
       Norgrove says there is no question about the  warped minds of some of the members of the  Army's elite Night Stalkers. He said that he  regards the website as scary, and that some  members have a preoccupation with death and killing.
<several paragraphs deleted>
       Norgrove is concerned about the possibility  that Night Stalkers and Delta Force soldiers  might one day be sent on a mission to fight American citizens.
       "If it were to ever come down to and actual  weapons confiscation scenario, I don't know if I  could honestly tell if they would do it or not. I  would probably say that 60 percent of them  would not do it, because they're well versed  about why they're there -- for the Constitution  and for domestic and foreign things," he explained.
       But would they fire on American civilians?
       "You know what, I would probably guess  some of the younger ones would, especially  some that are coming out now. Now, when I  was in we were pretty rock-steady. We realized  what we were there to do was to fight terrorism  and outside threats. When we would train in  the cities themselves we realized this was  training for when we were put elsewhere. That  was spelled out to us then. It wouldn't surprise  me at all if people took that attitude now.  Things have changed quite a bit in the past six or seven years," explained Norgrove.
       He confirmed that he participated in exercises in which live rounds were used on a number of
training missions in U.S. cities. "Now I don't condone that. Especially in a city setting, or even in a rural setting," he commented.
<several paragraphs deleted>
       Norgrove said he believed stories about Night  Stalkers and Delta Force involved in the FBI  assault on the David Koresh group in Waco,  Texas. He was not there and did not know any details.
<delete to end of article>
       David M. Bresnahan, a contributing editor for, is the author of "Cover Up: The  Art and Science of Political Deception," and offers a  monthly newsletter "Talk USA Investigative  Reports." He may be reached through email and also maintains a website.

JANUARY 10, 1999
Carol Moore

          It has been almost six years since agents of the ATF and FBI killed 82 Branch Davidians outside of Waco, Texas.  If this was a movie about the glories of freedom and justice in America, the most culpable agents and officials (including Bill Clinton and Janet Reno) would have lost their jobs, their pensions and even been imprisoned for negligent and even intentional homicide--and seven Davidians, now looking at a combined 238 years in prison, would be free.
          I recently saw “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.” In it Senator Smith, while filibustering the Senate for justice, reads in menacing tones the third sentence of the Declaration of Independence, which says about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness: “Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of those Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government...”  Can we imagine a senator saying such a thing today–even in a movie?? (Unless it was about right wing crazies, of course!)
          Since 1993 more laws restricting more of our freedom have been passed.  Thousands more Americans have been assaulted by police–even killed–during arrests for crimes that should not be crimes, especially minor drug use and distribution. All of us have lost freedom in the form of new laws and rules regarding identification, reporting of employment and finances, roving wiretaps and losses of rights against unconstitutional search and seizures.  Dozens of big talking “patriots” have been imprisoned because government agents lured them into words or acts of “conspiracy” to commit speculative acts of violence against some future government crackdown; hundreds of black men sit on death row for crimes which whites do not. The President has bombed several foreign nations to distract the public his crimes and impending impeachment.  And even the mainstream press reports on federal plans for “Y2K war games” before and martial law during any potential civil disruptions caused by year 2000 computer problems.
          Meanwhile, the U.S. Congress, press and public are mired in the quagmire caused by a plainly perjuring “Chief Law Enforcement Officer” who doesn’t have the decency to resign from office.  (See for a description of Congressional “secret evidence” of Clinton’s rape of one or more women, evidence which may yet be released to the public in the Senate trial.)  Unfortunately, even if Clinton resigns, the corrupt police state mentality that spawned him–and which he manipulated and furthered–will continue until we have fundamental change in the psychology,  morality and institutional structures that dominate our world.  (See my Consciousness and Community home page )  Nevertheless, we should not forget the government’s crimes at Waco–nor the seven prisoners who still suffer for those crimes.

          Former Branch Davidian leader George Roden, 60, who had been in a state mental institution since he was declared insane in 1989 after murdering a man, was  found dead on December 7th on the grounds of Big Spring State Hospital.  While authorities initially thought Roden had escaped the institution for the third time, his body was found inside the grounds.  A nearby fence showed no evidence the 300 pound man had tried to scale it. An autopsy report indicated Roden, who had a history of heart problems, died of a heart attack.
           Roden preceded David Koresh as leader of the Branch Davidians.  However, his increasing mental instability and his habit of constantly threatening other members with weapons, drove off almost all the Davidians in the mid-1980s.  They joined David Koresh at a camp outside of Palestine, Texas.  Many allege under Roden Mount Carmel became a center for methamphetamine manufacture and distribution.
          In 1987 Roden dug up the body of Anna Hughes and challenged Koresh to raise her from the dead.  Koresh and seven other Davidians sneaked onto Mount Carmel to get a photograph of Hughes' body to show to authorities. A gun battle ensued, ending with McLennan County Sheriff's deputies arresting Koresh and his followers and charging them with attempted        murder.  They were acquitted at trial, in part due to Roden's obvious mental instability when he testified at trial.
          For the next two years, after Koresh and friends re-took the property under a judge's orders, Roden continued to threaten to go to Mount Carmel kill them all.  It was during this time that Davidians frequently felt compelled to station armed guards on the property--something at least one former Davidian falsely alleged to BATF was ongoing in 1992 and 1993.  Something BATF and the FBI fed to the press during the 1993 siege.  David Koresh wrote his song "Madman in Waco" about Roden.  The press later used the song to demonize Koresh.

          In mid-December, 1998 Judge Alan Mayfield of Waco's 74th State District Court delayed the trial over the ownership of the Branch Davidians' 77 acre property, Mount Carmel, for another two months.  This while it is determined if George Roden’s four children planned to claim ownership of the land as part of their father's estate.  This unlikely event would further complicate the dispute over ownership of the property.
          Davidian followers of David Koresh, led by Clive Doyle, have the strongest title to the land, because of their living up to a 1988 agreement with a local Court--at least until interrupted by the 1993 ATF and FBI assaults.   They also have built a memorial and a museum on the property and continue to pay taxes on it.
          Also claiming the land are Amo Bishop Roden and Douglas Mitchell, who both lived at Mount Carmel before Koresh took control, and have been squatting there on an off since the 1993 fire.  Both claim that God has told them that the land belongs to them.  Meanwhile, another sometimes-squatter, Thomas Drake, also entered the case, claiming that George Roden bestowed upon him a "memorandum of title'' to a portion of the property.
          Judge Mayfield did throw out slander, libel, malicious prosecution and harassment claims by Amo Roden against the Doyle faction. The judge, however, agreed with Mitchell that there is a factual dispute that a jury should decide on who are the rightful trustees of the Branch Davidian Seventh-day Adventists Association and the legal owners of the land.  Mitchell contends that Koresh illegally changed the name of the church and thereby relinquished claim to the property.
However, according to Clive Doyle, Koresh only unofficially added “Davidian” to the name for a short time and Mitchell’s argument is bogus.  Doyle expects that eventually the court will rule in their favor and a number of surviving Davidians will complete their plans to return to Mount Carmel permanently.  If you would like to aid in that cause, send checks to: Mount Carmel Survivors Memorial Fund, Inc., Box 120, Axtell, TX 76624.

          As transcribed from Free Republic's video tape of their 10-31-98 "March for Justice”
Impeach Clinton Rally (available at: ), Aldrich said:
       “ Let me just review a few reasons why I feel so strongly.  You know I worked for two and half years in the White House under the regime of Bill and Hillary Clinton and I saw some things there that you might recall.  Let's start with Waco.  (Crowd yells, “Yeah!” and “Murderers.”)
        “Now the way the media played that, it was all about the FBI. I'm not here to defend the FBI today.  But I want to tell you that the orders to storm Waco did not come from the FBI headquarters, they came from the White House. Bill Clinton was embarrassed that he was not able
to figure out what to do about David Koresh and Waco.  It was becoming his hostage situation.  He was being compared to Jimmy Carter.  And so they wanted the Department of Justice to get rid of the mess.  He had already suffered through two attorney general nomination failures and
now we had Waco.
        “The results were terrible.  The results were terrible.  Young babies being burned alive in fires.  But the President told me to my face that he felt so bad about this ‘mass suicide.’  How do babies commit suicide?”

          On April 19, 1993 President Clinton performed no official functions announced by the White House press office. However, he was engaged in fundraising, according to Edward Timberlake and William C. Triplette II, in their book “Year of the Rat.”  The book exposes Clinton’s fundraising from sources connected to the Chinese government.
          On the afternoon of April 19, President Clinton entertained three major contributors, Indonesian multi-millionaire James Riady, John Huang and Mark Grobmeyer.  Riady later told Indonesian diplomats that Clinton chatted with them in the small office off the Oval Office (where Clinton later entertained Monica Lewinsky) while the television in the room showed Mount Carmel burning.  Clinton then took them to the White House situation room, then on high alert and monitoring the events in Waco.  (Sources: An April 28, 1997 Washington Post article and White House entry logs found on page 297 of Senate Report 105-167.)  So even while the Davidians burned to death because of actions approved of by Clinton, Bill Clinton was busy raising money to make sure he would be Commander in Chief yet another term.

          George Zimmerlee has been particularly concerned about the FBI's jamming of the Davidians’ amateur radio and has filed various Freedom of Information Act documents.  He also has written letters to Congressmen and the FCC about the issue.  For more information and updates check out his web page: Research on Criminal Government

          Like millions of Americans, I discovered Bill Clinton was an evil man on April 20, 1993 when he said angrily during a press conference, “I was, frankly, surprised, would be a mild word to say, that anyone that would suggest that the Attorney General should resign because some religious fanatics murdered themselves.”  And like many of them I’ve been ready to–and working to--impeach him and drive him from office since that day.
          So “Impeachment Day”--December 19, 1998 (5 years and 8 months after the day Mount Carmel burned)--was certainly a great victory for us all.  Below are a few impeachment tales, with relevant photo sites.
          As I probably mentioned in the last Waco Update, Committee members showed up at the October 31, 1998 Impeach Clinton Rally with 2,500+ other attendees. A few of us also showed at the 300+ person December 5th rally at the Capitol Building.  (I told speaker Representative Bob Barr that if Clinton supporters brought up Starr’s alleged “prosecutorial misconduct” he should bring up prosecutorial misconduct against the Branch Davidians.  He said, “Oh, yes. Yes.” But I don’t think he did.)
          The hearings started the next week and since I live in D.C. I did so three times, sitting in for about five hours.  I was especially motivated because two of Clinton’s witnesses were going to be two of his partners in covering up his crimes at Waco. Arrogant as ever, Clinton chose Ronald K. Noble (who oversaw the Treasury Department’s 1993 whitewash report on Waco) and Edward S.G. Dennis, Jr. (who oversaw the Justice Department’s 1993 whitewash report on Waco) to participate in the Wednesday, December 9th morning panel on  “Prosecutorial Standards for Obstruction of Justice and Perjury.”
          Was Clinton telling Congress that it let these agents get away with mass murder–so it can surely let him get away with a little lying under oath?  Answering questions in Israel a few days later Clinton referred to Dennis when he said:  “If you go back to the hearing, we had four prosecutors, two republicans, two democrats, one the head of President Reagan’s criminal justice division [i.e., Dennis] who went through the law in great detail and explained that.”
          I wrote up a flier explaining this and distributed it to a number of House members the evening and morning before Dennis and Nobel’s testimony.  Representative Bill McCullom, who co-chaired the Waco House hearings, acted surprised when I told him, so obviously he’s forgotten many significant Waco facts by now.  Representative Asa Hutchinson stopped and listened politely and seemed genuinely concerned.  I later learned that as U.S. Attorney in Arkansas in the mid-1980s, he assisted the FBI in successful negotiations that led to peaceful resolution of the week long standoff with the Covenant, Sword and Arm of the Lord religious group.  So he may have appreciated the fact that Waco also might have been resolved peacefully!
          I didn’t bother to mention this to the Democrats, though I did have a couple of interesting exchanges.  As Representative Zoe Lofgren walked by, I reminded her about her role in bringing 15 year old Kiri Jewell in front of national television to speak explicitly of her alleged abuse by David Koresh: "Talk about pornography, what about the Democrats calling little Kiri Jewell to be on TV?  Now that was child abuse."  She was quite annoyed.
          Later Maxine Walters walked by when I was in line waiting to get in.  I said to her in a sympathetic voice: “All these Republicans got elected because people upset about Waco.”  She replied in surprised agreement: “Yes!” I went on: “That’s why they’re trying to impeach him now!”  She agreed vehemently: “Yes! You’re right!” And then I added as she walked away, “And it’s justice for the killing of all those children and women!”  Ms. Walters looked quite flabbergasted.
          I must admit it is frustrating that these small acts of defiance were probably the only references to Waco that anyone made during these hearings. Despite my efforts, no one asked Noble or Dennis anything about their roles in the Waco coverup.  But, as I have said over and over again, Congress has proved that it is more concerned with protecting law enforcement than protecting citizens against law enforcement.  However, at least Clinton is being impeached for a crime that we all agree is a real crime–lying under oath in a judicial proceeding–as opposed to merely having sex in the Oval Office!

          On Saturday December 19th a few Waco protesters participated in the anti-Iraq bombing demo outside the White House, even as Democratic representatives pulled up in their buses to rally with Clinton after his impeachment.  Two of us carried signs connecting Waco and the Iraq bombing.  Another fellow with the small pro-impeach demonstration carried a sign reading: "Impeachment is Vengeance for Waco."
          And indeed, it is!  For, as a few journalist have noted, citizen outrage over the ATF and FBI's killing of 82 Branch Davidians in 1993 helped in 1994 to elect the first Republican majority Congress in four decades.  Fearful conservatives streamed to the polls to elect any Republican who promised to protect them (and their guns) from over-zealous government agents.
          The 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, allegedly motivated by the government's brutal actions, did partially neutralize that rage.  However, I am sure that most Republican representatives and senators still receive a number of letters a week encouraging them to impeach Clinton for Waco.  Because of the Democrat's successful demonization of the Davidians, Republican lawmakers may not talk publicly about "Waco."  Nevertheless, citizen outrage over--and even revenge for--Waco remains an element in the impeachment of William Jefferson Clinton.

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